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Vincent and Catherine talking to Eric.

Question of the Day

What do you think?

When does Father accept Vincent and Catherine's relationship?

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truelovewaits     2/9/2014 2:57:18 PM
There is a hint about it in the episode "Temptation". "He said he used to rule the day that they met and never dreamed that he would one day look upon her with a fondness." He accepted it as it was but maybe had an idea it would be doomed in the end.

Regina     2/7/2014 9:52:22 PM
Father see the love V and C share. You can feel it.

Emily     2/7/2014 7:29:48 PM
I think in "Shades of Grey." He still may not really approve of their relationship, or not worry and have reservations. But I think in that episode, he accepts their love, their bond, and their desire to be together.

Zara Wilder     2/7/2014 12:41:17 PM
In light of Vicky's second post, then, it is interesting to notice the way Father's acceptance and embrace of the lovers' relationship mirrors Catherine's...considering in context that Father's "a life that can never be" ("Siege") is mirrored by Catherine's "it is impossible" ("China Moon," "A Happy Life") all through Season One (not to mention her personal decision not to live Below in "Orphans," in Season Two). And also considering that Father's attempt to comfort Vincent with "it's been a wonderful dream" occurs in "Ceremony of Innocence," *after* Vincent and Catherine have determined *together* that sharing a life as a couple is more than impossible for them, even lethal, and so have separated to keep each other alive ("What Rough Beast"). Isn't an embrace of the lovers' relationship that takes into account everything the lovers themselves believe about their own lives, hopes, and dreams a complete acceptance that is both realistic and respectful?

Vicky     2/7/2014 4:23:17 AM
Father understands they love and he feels the wonder of what they share, but when it comes to them being a couple, sharing a life together as couples do (not just intimacy but everything else), he still thinks it can never be, it is "a wonderful dream." To me that is only a half acceptance, rather than an embracing of all that they can be.

s     2/7/2014 2:48:40 AM
In my opinion, after he got to heal his own heart from the bitterness of his own tragic relationship with Margaret (Song of Orpheus). After that episode, you'll only find words of (wary!) hope about the couple from him. Apart from opinions, just looking at Canon, after one year: "Father: I never dreamed I'd one day look on Catherine... with the fondness that I do. Vincent: It's been a time filled with things we never dreamed of... It's been the most miraculous year of my life. Father: You know, you two share something quite extraordinary... Something that touches the best in all of us." (Temptation)

Rusty / RedNightBird     2/6/2014 4:58:26 PM
From the afterlife when C&V are buried next to each other....

T'Mara     2/6/2014 1:57:13 PM
Well, my first impulse was to say: does he ever? Then I thought about various scenes that show that he has grown to like Catherine and sees her as part of their community and I was about to revise my opinion. Then it occurred to me that he never really believes that there is a future for V&C, and that their relationship is therefore doomed. I think he never came to the conclusion that with love everything is possible. He never truly saw them as having a chance, and therefore was always wary, always afraid that Vincent (and later, once he began to like her, Catherine as well) might get hurt.

Zara Wilder     2/6/2014 11:41:32 AM
My curiosity leads me to make a second post. So Father understands the lovers but does not accept them ("Shades of Gray")? Father is fond of Catherine and finds the lovers' relationship inspiring but does not like or accept their relationship ("Temptation")? Father relies upon Catherine's help and support during numerous emergencies in the Tunnels but does not accept her as a part of Vincent's life ("No Way Down," "Nor Iron Bars a Cage," "The Alchemist," "Ashes, Ashes," "The Outsiders," "The Rest is Silence," etc.)? Father prays for both lovers but does not accept them ("A Happy Life")? Father loves both of them but does not accept them ("A Kingdom by the Sea")? Does Father spend the entire series saying and doing things he does not mean? I'm trying to make sense of what is being said with regards to this question, in comparison to the events and dialogue that occur in the episodes.

Rosemarie S.     2/6/2014 11:36:17 AM
I don't think he ever really did in the show that we saw on TV. Over the two seasons, he goes from disliking her outright to accepting her as a friend and Helper. She has done some good for the community, and for V, that he can't deny. But truly accepting their relationship? I don't think so. So many parents have in-law problems because, even after marriage, they can never really accept their child's choice of partner if it is different from what their vision was. I'm not saying that would be Father - just that it would probably take V&C being in a more settled relationship over time.

Vicky     2/6/2014 11:03:04 AM
Acknowledging and accepting are two different things to me. Father acknowledges Vincent's love for Catherine from the start and eventually hers for him. He acknowledges the wonder of that they share. He eventually gets to genuinely appreciate Catherine. But does he like it? And does he think a life together is possible for them? It didn't seem to me like he did. In the end and even at the very end of the show in "Ceremony of innocence," he still expresses his belief that what they have is just "a wonderful dream." So to answer the question, while he accepts their love and Catherine, he still doesn't think this is a good idea; so no, I don't think he ever fully accepts Catherine as part of Vincent's life.

Sue     2/6/2014 10:34:15 AM
In Shades of Grey father realized Catherine would do anything to save Vincent.

Odile     2/6/2014 9:48:23 AM
Je pense que c’est dans l’épisode de "Nor Iron Bars a Cage" que Père commence à accepter réellement la relation entre Vincent et Catherine. Il vient chercher son aide pour retrouver Vincent. Cela représente pour lui un effort énorme car il doit surmonter son amour-propre. A partir de ce moment là, ainsi que le dit JoAnn, cette acceptation va évoluer au cours des saisons une et deux. Cela va se faire peu à peu, par paliers. Je pense que, finalement, à la fin du dernier épisode de la saison deux (Le Reste est Silence), Père accepte complètement la réalité de cette relation et à quel point elle a de l’importance dans la vie de Catherine et Vincent. Quand Catherine dit que Vincent est tout pour lui et quand elle part le rejoindre. Elle fait alors un choix : elle prend le risque de mourir avec lui - et par lui-, plutôt que de vivre sans lui. L’amour jusqu’à la mort…c’est le plus beau et le plus pur qui soit. I think that it is in the episode "Nor Iron Bars a Cage" that Father begins to really accept the relationship between Vincent and Catherine. He comes to seek her help to find Vincent. This represents a huge effort for him because he must overcome his self-esteem. Starting from that moment, as well as JoAnn said, this acceptance will evolve over the seasons one and two. This is going be done gradually, stepwise. I think, finally, at the end of the last episode of season two (The Rest Is Silence), Father fully accepts the reality of this relationship and how it is important in the life of Catherine and Vincent. When Catherine says that Vincent is everything to her and when she goes to join him. She then makes a choice : she takes the risk of dying with him - and by him - rather than live without him. Love unto death ... this is the most beautiful and purest love.

M.     2/6/2014 9:44:26 AM
I think accept is difficult for him and his believes. He recognises that this two are one. But with his history is always waiting for disaster to strike. His trust in woman that are importent a nearly not existent.Mary don`t count as she is a friend with no other choice in his opinion.

JoAnn     2/6/2014 9:29:20 AM
I think Father's emotional acceptance of the relationship (and of Catherine herself) comes at a different time than his intellectual acceptance. He's not stupid - he sees that his son is in love and committed to this woman from Above. And on occasion he is supportive. But he doesn't easily make the leap intellectually to fully accepting Catherine as permanently in Vincent's life until much after he mouths the words of acceptance. Just as each season shows us the transformation of the lead characters, so do Seasons 1 and 2 show us the long arc of Father's complete acceptance of the long-term implications of Catherine's relationship with Vincent.

Cordi     2/6/2014 9:04:23 AM
Vater merkt im Laufe der Zeit immer mehr, wie tief und eng und vor allem auch gut diese Verbindung für Vincent ist - nicht umsonst holt er Catherine in Alchemist, weil er zu Vincent nicht durchdringen kann. Trotzdem geht er auch immer wieder einen Schritt zurück, vielleicht, weil er es selber nicht glauben kann oder aus Angst, es könnte alles zerbrechen. Zum Ende der 2. Staffel hat er meiner Meinung nach, aber endgültig verstanden und auch akzeptiert, dass die beiden für immer zusammen gehören, denn wieder ist es Catherine, die Vincent rettet. ---------- During the time Father get's closer to accept. In scene like Alchimist where he get's Catherine because he can't help Vincent he sees more clearer that this relationship is special. Father also takes steps back, maybe not willing to believe or afraid it all could fall apart for his son. At the end of S2 he finally totally accept because it's again only Catherine who can save Vincent.

underthepark     2/6/2014 6:50:14 AM
Dass die beiden eine tiefe freundschaft verbindet, das sieht er zwar nicht gern aber er muss es wohl akzeptiern, relativ bald in der Serie. Und er sieht auch, dass sich V immer mehr in C verliebt und hat Angst, dass er verletzt wird, weil er sich nicht wirklich vorstellen kann, dass C auch so für V empfinden kann. So richtig beginnt er glaucbe ich ab a Happy Life die Liebesbeziehung zwischen den Beiden zu akzeptiern (dann werde ich über Euch beide wachen) und irgendwann gegen Ende der 2. Staffel hat er sich glaube ich mit der Beziehung der beiden abgefunden, als C fragt ob es helfen würde wenn sie wegbleibt, und er gibt ihr zu verstehen dass sie zu V gehört und man die beiden nicht trennen kann.

Zara Wilder     2/6/2014 1:01:51 AM
I'm not sure what is meant by the word "accept," but my face-value answer is that Father accepts the relationship between Vincent and Catherine in the Pilot episode, where he is the first character in the story to state that Vincent loves Catherine. He is also the first character other than Catherine to affirm that Catherine cares for Vincent ("Nor Iron Bars a Cage"), and then that Catherine loves Vincent ("Song of Orpheus"). From the beginning, Father sympathizes with Vincent's difficult struggles to maintain a relationship with Catherine despite all odds...and Father is also completely honest about the dangers that Vincent must confront throughout those struggles. It's after "Song of Orpheus" (not even half way through Season One) that Father's understanding of the young lovers' relationship (and of Catherine herself) deepens enough that he can trust Catherine to bring more to Vincent's life than just the tremendous pain Vincent has endured during the previous eight episodes of Season One. After Margaret's death in "Song of Orpheus," during the later episode "Shades of Gray," Father states that he understands about Catherine and about Vincent's bond with her. By "Temptation," Father is fond of Catherine and admires the lovers' relationship. By "A Happy Life," Father is standing watch and praying for both Catherine and his son so that there can be someone there watching over the lovers on both sides of the river (Father's metaphor, by the way). In Season Two, he treats Catherine like a daughter-in-law. I think *Father's* relationship with Catherine (like any relationship) takes time to grow from doubt and suspicion toward trust and affection, but he accepts Vincent's and Catherine's relationship from the moment Vincent tells him they are still connected to each other, in the middle of "Once Upon a Time in the City of New York."

Walkingmiracle     2/6/2014 12:33:17 AM
I think Father accepts them slowly and in little baby steps. You see a step begin in Nor Iron Bars A Cage, when Catherine saves his life, but he still thinks they will both wind up hurt like he says in Song of Orpheus. Another step comes in Shades of Grey when she saves both Father and Vincent's lives with no regard for her own safety. In Dead of Winter he calls her part of the family so there's another step. This is also her relationship with the entire community that he's accepting, which we see more of om The Outsiders. I think the final step is seen in the 3 episode arc at the end of season 2. It would have continued had she lived. (Don't get angry, I know this is the Classic question, so I won't say anymore.)

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