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Vincent and Catherine talking to Eric.

Question of the Day

What do you think?

In Orphans, Vincent tells Catherine they can be truly together only if or when they understand how great the sacrifices and how large the fears, and are able to move through them. What would his sacrifices be, and what are his fears? What are Catherine's?

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truelovewaits     2/9/2014 3:07:02 PM
Vincent's fears getting too close to Catherine. It was difficult in that episode for him that Catherine was so close. Knowing that temptation was there to want to be close to her to comfort her in her time of mourning he was afraid of what he might do in hurting her physically. It would be a sacrifice on his part to want to get close without the fear of hurting her and Catherine has to be the one to encourage him in that area by telling it was ok. Catherine's fears would be having to leave her life behind in the world above. Her job, apartment, friends, etc. Joe and her friends would wonder what happened to her if she dropped off everything and never came back. I guess she could fake re-locate her job somewhere else then Joe would find out looking into things the way he does. They would both have big sacrifices to make to be together!

Odile     2/9/2014 8:08:15 AM
Pour être vraiment ensemble, il faut que Catherine abandonne son travail et vienne vivre en bas. Travailler au dessus et vivre en bas serait incompatible. Cela attirerait l’attention sur la communauté et la mettrait en danger. Cela implique donc pour Catherine, le sacrifice de renoncer à sa vie d’en haut pour vivre complètement en bas. Mais je ne suis pas sûre que ce soit vraiment un sacrifice pour elle : à mon avis, son désir de vivre avec Vincent est plus important que tout. Les conséquences de cette décision correspondent aux craintes de Vincent : elle perdrait un travail qui la valorise et qui est utile, se couperait de ses amis, renoncerait à la vie opulente et aux enfants qu’aurait pu lui offrir un homme de son milieu, perdrait son indépendance. Je ne pense pas que Vincent regretterait vraiment de ne plus voir le monde d’en haut à travers Catherine. La présence de Catherine à ses côtés est plus importante que tout. C’est ce qu’il souhaite, en fait. Sa plus grande crainte et très difficile pour lui à surmonter, est la peur de la blesser s’il décidait de partager son lit avec elle. Et l’on peut se demander ce que signifie exactement pour Vincent « être ensemble ». Où est la limite pour lui ? Peut-être aussi craint-il de ne pas pouvoir donner des enfants à Catherine et il sait que c’est très important pour elle. Il a peur aussi que Catherine regrette un jour sa décision de vivre en bas. Concernant Vincent, je ne vois pas quel sacrifice il pourrait faire. Pour Catherine, je pense que sa crainte est que Vincent refuse un amour physique, une vie de couple normale. To be really together, Catherine have to abandon her work and comes to live below. To work above and to live below would be incompatible. It would draw the attention on the community and would put it in danger. It thus implies for Catherine the sacrifice to give up her life from above for living completely below. But I am not sure whether it is really a sacrifice for her : in my opinion, her desire to live with Vincent is more important than everything. The consequences of this decision correspond to the fears of Vincent: she would lose a work which values her and which is useful, would cut herself of her friends, would give up the rich life and the children that a man of her middle would have been able to offer to her, would lose her independence. I do not think that Vincent would really regret not seeing any more the world from above through Catherine. Catherine's presence by his side is more important than everything. It is what he wishes, in fact. His biggest fear and very difficult for him to surmount, is the fear of hurting her if he decided to share his bed with her. And we can wonder what means exactly for Vincent " to be together ". Where is the limit for him? Maybe also he is afraid he cannot give children to Catherine and he knows that it is very important for her. He is afraid as well as Catherine regrets one day her decision living below. Concerning Vincent, I do not see which sacrifice he could make. For Catherine, I think that her fear is that Vincent refuses physical love, a normal life as a couple.

Rusty / RedNightBird     2/8/2014 8:43:15 PM
His fears were the only thing they had to overcome!!!

Emily     2/8/2014 7:59:00 PM
I think the fear is the unknown that is their relationship. Since it's something that has never come before, it's so unique and special, there's no script to follow. And the sacrifice is having to make their own way, revise and create a dream, rather than try to fulfill a preconceived idea of what a relationship is or what they are. Does that make sense? To just completely "be" as they are, as they are together.

Cordi     2/8/2014 3:01:46 PM
Vincents Ängste sind seine Gefühle, er denkt noch immer, er verdiene diese Liebe nicht und sei nicht gut genug für Catherine. Außerdem hat er Angst, dass die auf Dauer unglücklich ist, da sie ihre Beziehung geheim halten muss. Aus Liebe würde er aber auf SIE verzichten, wenn er sicher ist, das C. dadurch glücklicher lebt. Catherine hingegen hat Angst ihn zu verlieren, wenn sie ihn zu sehr bedrängt. Trotzdem wäre sie bereit auf ein "normales" Leben zu verzichten, also eine ganz normale Beziehung zu einem Mann, auf Kinder und Familie, eben aus Liebe. Solange sich beide aber nicht wirklich annähern und ihre tiefe Liebe zu einander eingestehen und akzeptieren, mit allen guten udn schlechten Konsequenzen, sondern immer nur um ihre Gefühle "herumtanzen", werden sich diese Ängste nicht legen. Solange wird es immer einen "Elliot" dort oben geben, der Vincent glauben lässt, damit wäre Catherine glücklicher.

Regina     2/8/2014 2:57:50 PM
Vincent fears hurting her for her to regret Things he couldn't give her Vincent's Sacrifices his beliefs What others would think and room in his bed I believe Catherine would give up everything for him, I think at first she had some fears but they have disappear she was waiting for him..

Sue     2/8/2014 12:01:29 PM
I think Vincent would fear that Catherine would giving up her life above and might come to resent him and life below. Catherine, in giving up everything she knows above would be hard to do. But she also knows that life with Vincent is worth everything.

T'Mara     2/8/2014 11:41:23 AM
I think Vincent's ideas of a relationship are that the man should be protective of the woman and support her and their children. In the rather patriarchal views of the tunnelworld (and his own romantic ideals), the man would have to give the woman the moon and the stars. But if Catherine moved down, he would have to sacrifice this ideal, since instead of giving her everything, he would take things away from her, such as comfort, her career, regular visits with friends etc. His greatest fear is therefore that she would miss all theses things after a while, be disappointed in him and regret her choice.

M.     2/8/2014 9:35:16 AM
If Vincent would do as Cathy asks in Remember Love he still could face fears but would have the certainythat there is someone other than his friends in the tunnels is waiting for him. Even as he feels it with every heartbeat he denies what he must know. Sometimes I think devin could come back to teach him to think ,Father for the Reason ,Devin for heart and Risk.But before he allows himself to feel nothing will change. Cathy will make the prophet but the mountain is diffcult to move. The danger is always there even by crossing the road so as escuse works only so long .vincent has seen that by Masks but denied it shortly after. He will see it again with time and patience.

JoAnn     2/8/2014 9:33:11 AM
I agree with Pat and WM. Added to those fears, I think of Vincent as in some ways living vicariously through Catherine, i.e., sharing in her joy at being able to help others in ways he cannot (through the "system"). He has fears that a permanent "attachment" would compromise her work, diminishing her ability to be all she could be Above. Catherine's fear, in addition to those already expressed, is that she'll never be able to find a way that's acceptable to Vincent for them to be together.

Pat     2/8/2014 5:26:12 AM
I think one fear of Vincent's is that, for someone to love him and particularly an Above person, it is asking for too many sacrifices on her part. His limitations require the unbalance, and he questions if that is fair to ask of a person. And along with that is the question in his mind if that person could realize all the sacrifices and make an informed decision, freely and willingly. Catherine's fears I see more in relationship to Vincent's acceptance of her decision, and his willingness to be open to possibilities. On another front, I do think the burden of secrecy to her friends is difficult for her, and she does want and need her ties to Above so she likely questions if that will be possible for her in a relationship with Vincent without putting the community in danger.

Walkingmiracle     2/8/2014 12:46:34 AM
Vincent's fears are that he could never give Catherine what some man Above could. He thought if she stayed with him, she would never have children, like she wanted. She would sacrifice her friends as well. His sacrifice would probably be letting go of his fears and listening to what Catherine said she wanted. Catherine would be giving up everything Vincent was worried about, but she wouldn't mind. Her fear was losing Vincent.

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